A potential adjustment to elementalist.

2

1

Zef Naaiers
Administrator

Welcome to final fantasy reunion! Feel free to PM me if you need anything

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 4, 2020 4:21:25 GMT

Quote

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 4, 2020 4:21:25 GMT

Currently elementalist is a special feature with two functions and a drawback.

+Cast spells of the element a level higher.
+Gain resistance to the element of choice. With linked defensive materia is can turn into absorption.
-Gain a weakness to the opposed element.

Elementalists current function shines most for hybrids going 2 fight/1 magic. It allows them to push into 2 magic with a certain spell type so they can save a point to use for another special feature. It has a cousin in the healer special feature. The biggest difference is that healer provides no drawback.

Overall, elementalist hasn't been a popular choice. I would guess because of the weakness diminishing the value.

What I am considering doing is dropping elementalist as a special feature and making picking an element an option for each character and reinforcement. Picking no element would still be an option to avoid having an elemental weakness.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this, or just a like would be good if you are in support of the change. Overall I think it would probably slightly increase magic use but would still be balanced. (characters that took it would get the point refunded of course)

Last Edit: May 4, 2020 4:24:39 GMT by Zef Naaiers

0

2

Kaze Walker

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 4, 2020 18:17:13 GMT Zef Naaiers likes this

Quote

Post by Kaze Walker on May 4, 2020 18:17:13 GMT

I like the idea of changing it to an optional feature so that it'd see some use, not to mention for the interesting character flavor.

At the same time, perhaps lessening the drawback might make it more appealing as a feature? For example, instead of a weakness to the opposing element, what if they were unable to use the corresponding materia? i.e. your character is fire based so is thus unable to utilize ice materia.

Just a thought.

Last Edit: May 4, 2020 18:17:32 GMT by Kaze Walker

2

Azure VI
Shin-Ra

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 4, 2020 19:29:24 GMT Zef Naaiers likes this

Quote

Post by Azure VI on May 4, 2020 19:29:24 GMT

During the revision for Azure VI, I had to decide between keeping Elementalist/Water and having an extra point to use somewhere else, or just taking Magic 2. I ended up going with Magic 2 and then writing the lack of Elementalist/Water into the character's background though it wasn't necessarily the weakness that was the deciding factor.

Aside from my own intents/plans for Azure, I kind of thought of it like this-- The Resistance and Weakness are something of a wash from a general standpoint, so for the cost of one Archetype point you're essentially just getting the ability to use one materia at a +1 tier. If you have something to use the saved Archetype point on, it is potentially useful but if you aren't really interested in Reinforcement/Transformation/Ranged, then you can essentially just abandon Elementalist for Magic-2 and get all of the materia at Tier 2 rather than just the one.

I guess it's just too specific of a use-case? You only have 2 points left and really want a tier-2 spell, but also want one of the other Special Features. It also seems to clash with Transformation almost directly, which has it's own elemental option, drops your Magic to 0, and negates materia overall.

All this meta-gaming aside, I fully support anything that kind of allows for a little more freedom/creativity of writing without having to worry about the point-side of it too much.

Somewhat related question-- How does a linked-elemental defense materia effect an elementalist weakness? Do they get straight immunity like normal, or do they sort of start from a negative 1 in a sense and just get buffed to taking regular damage?

2

1

Zef Naaiers
Administrator

Welcome to final fantasy reunion! Feel free to PM me if you need anything

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 4, 2020 21:01:59 GMT

Quote

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 4, 2020 21:01:59 GMT

May 4, 2020 19:29:24 GMT Azure VI said:

Somewhat related question-- How does a linked-elemental defense materia effect an elementalist weakness? Do they get straight immunity like normal, or do they sort of start from a negative 1 in a sense and just get buffed to taking regular damage?

It'd just nul the weakness out, they wouldn't get immunity.

2

Leonhardt
Avalanche

A warrior in a garden.

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 5, 2020 8:07:57 GMT Zef Naaiers likes this

Quote

Post by Leonhardt on May 5, 2020 8:07:57 GMT

From a design standpoint, it isn’t a very good option.

It costs an archetype point. That’s a big deal since we’ll only ever have 5 total, so why would I want to pick up anything that grants me a weakness?

Sure, it grants me immunity to one element, but so does elemental materia linked with any magic materia.

To gain a +1 to a single materia’s magic tier isn’t that exciting, when I can just drop 3 or 4 archetype point and have mid to top tier access to ALL magic materia’s magic, including limited materia.

Making it optional is cool. I like that. There is something cool about looking the Midgar Zolom, and tanking the Beta attack, and shrugging it off because you have an immunity to fire. That’s bad ass!

As it is written, I also like the idea of dropping the weakness all together. Since the weakness can be removed with gil, it favors players who have been around longer, which is a good way to cause the beginnings of rift between old and new players, especially since this game does have a heavy PvP element to it. If you do want a draw back, then I recommend two things:

1) Making it so Elemental materia can not be equipped by Elementalists. It just doesn’t work, like how Holy didn’t work for Aerith.
2) Adopting a rock-paper-scissors style, where you are: strong vs one element, immune to your own, and weak vs a third, leaving the fourth to do average damage.

Example: Fire Elementalist.
- Immune to Fire damage.
- Fire is strong against Ice, so they do more damage against Ice-elementalist AND take reduced damage from Ice spells.
- Fire is weak against Water, so they do less damage to Water-elementalists AND take more damage from Water spells
- Fire is average against Lightning, so they do average damage to Lightning-elementalists AND take average damage from Lightning spells.

This causes a scale of danger between characters and really adds tension to combat, assuming a Fire-elementalist wants to try their luck against a Water-elementalist.

2

1

Zef Naaiers
Administrator

Welcome to final fantasy reunion! Feel free to PM me if you need anything

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 5, 2020 22:01:55 GMT Kaze Walker, Leonhardt, and 2 more like this

Quote

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 5, 2020 22:01:55 GMT

I think I like your second idea best Leonhardt. It diverges from canon slightly but not in a way that impacts anything I care to preserve. After each consideration and post I think I have decided what would be best to fit into our current system. I havn't implemented quite yet to see if there is any negative feedback to the plan.

No more elementalist archetype.

Elemental materia is improved. Now limited to one elemental in the weapon slot and one elemental in the defense slot.

Offense slot- Attacks gain the elemental type as normal which interacts with those with defensive slots in unique ways.

Defense slot- Can cast magic with the linked materia a tier level higher than normal. Gain the immunities, weaknesses, and resistances of the element.

Fire
Armor: Immunity vs Fire
Weapon: Strong vs Ice
Both: Weak vs Water

Lightning
-Armor: Immunity vs Lightning.
-Weapon: Strong vs Water.
-Both: Weak vs Ice. (Might seem weird but frozen water doesn't have ions moving around in it)

Ice
-Armor: Immune to Ice Damage.
-Weapon: Strong vs Lightning.
-Both: Weak vs fire.

Water
-Armor: Immune to Water Damage.
-Weapon: Strong vs fire.
-Both: Weak vs Lightning.

Neutral damage is implied for elements that don't interact in one way or another.

Wind will still give an effect when equipped to a weapon slot with elemental, earth will likely do something similar. Like other limited time materia they will have their own section that defines their mechanics, they will remain outside of type match ups.

Last Edit: May 5, 2020 22:08:56 GMT by Zef Naaiers

2

1

Marcos Briggs

A potential adjustment to elementalist. May 6, 2020 15:26:33 GMT Zef Naaiers likes this

Quote

Post by Marcos Briggs on May 6, 2020 15:26:33 GMT

You could say earth is weak to water due to erosion and wind is weak to fire because just like in the process of forging a weapon you need the air and oxygen to make a fire bigger and hotter. Either way I really like this change and think it would be a solid addition to the site. My only suggestion for balance purposes is to say maybe gives summons the ability to lower the resist of their element to someone that way they aren't necessarily immune to specific summons. They may not really be an issue though, its just a thought.

Final Fantasy VII: Reunion Forum Roleplay

Announcements

Recent Threads

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 4, 2020 4:21:25 GMT

Post by Kaze Walker on May 4, 2020 18:17:13 GMT

Post by Azure VI on May 4, 2020 19:29:24 GMT

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 4, 2020 21:01:59 GMT

Post by Leonhardt on May 5, 2020 8:07:57 GMT

Post by Zef Naaiers on May 5, 2020 22:01:55 GMT

Post by Marcos Briggs on May 6, 2020 15:26:33 GMT

Quick Reply

FFVII: Reunion

Shinra Radio

Join Our Discord Chat

Affiliates